Barnes Technical Information

Al soorts of Technical Information for Barnes machines.

ON machine repainting.

Whatever you do, DON'T sandblast it !!! Clean it up without leaving any abrasives embedded in the metal !
Start with a wipedown with mineral spirits. Then clean the bare metal parts with electrolysis, citric acid, phosphorinc acid (Naval Jelly) etc. Polish with steel wool and something like WD-40 as a lubricant.

Also, do NOT use Muriatic Acid. (HCl) - it combines chemically with the steel and makes it rust forever. The best acids for rust removal are Phosphoric and Citric. If you remove the paint, you will find a layer of "filler" underneath. Maybe leave it be.

More restoration information.

Some more information for restoring Barnes lathe, machines (and in general all other old machines).

The most commonly found color is black. However, I have seen them in gray (lighter & darker) as well as brown and some very early ones in green. Think the lighter gray is simply dark gray that has faded.

Paint has a tendency to fade when exposed to sunlight so looking for places that were not exposed such as where two parts are bolted together our up under and between things might lead to a better approximation of the proper color. 

I have seen a fairly large number of Barnes metal lathes from the cute little #4 to the massive #6 (both velociped, true treadle and bench/line shaft models) and have seen no indication that any of there metal lathes ever had any pin striping so getting that done should not come into play.

As most are missing parts and pieces. Your "opportunities" both sound manageable. Change gears, steady rests, wood turning attachments, etc., as well as the foot powered parts are usually missing. 

The #3 wood lathe is very highly decorated and is a real beauty. She works great and is a pleasure to operate.  

The Barnes line of metal lathes seems to be a little lighter in build especially when compared to Seneca Falls and Reed. Yes, you will find them in a lot of places and for some reason, they tend to show up in chicken coops, barns and outbuilding more than inside a shop. Never know.

With their wood working machines, Barnes assembled them and then painted. Have had great success with using Benjemin Moore IronClad paint. The water based seems to work just as well as the oil base and drives very quickly. The Barnes gray color mix for the Benjamin Moore IronClad latex paint is Deep Base 363 3B with the following added OY-4, BK 2X4, OG-3.

They also sell just a basis black that would be another choice.

The gray is what I describe as a traditional darker gray. Looks very much like early Crescent machines. 

De Very, Very careful in working with the pedals. Know somebody that use to restore these and he finally went to using a bolt to screw them together and then grind off the head as he broke so many trying to rivet them over.

If it were me (and I have restored a few Barnes machies and not it was not me above), I would not try and take them off. Just clean and paint as well as you can. After all, that is the foot powered parts.

As I remember, there are no springs that pop out on the Barnes 4 1/2 but as always, be careful and make some notes or better yet, take a few pictures. Might be nice to post a restore here. Know I should. Never seen an exploded parts diagram for one. Not even sure they had such a thing back then. Think they expected everyone to be mechanical enough to put things back together without a manual.

On the manual, I have never seen one nor heard of one. There are Barnes lathe catalogs that show all the lathes Barnes produced and give a sales pitch along with listing accessories such as chucks, cutting tools, etc. 

Think they felt you should know how to run a lathe or get one of the Audels or other early machinist guides.

Oil used for the head stock and lathes.

real thin oil as lube on the head stock boxes like singer sewing machine oil or hydraulic oil as used on modern lathes with geared headstocks and screw cutting gear boxes.

Source: John.

Chain for the lathes.

They are called; Rex Interlocking Chain (agricultural chain)

And are still available in the USA in agricultural stores or from Mike, all lathes have a differed size of chain.

Mike Powell

Producer of W.F. & John Barnes Lathe Parts

e-mail: 57chevywagonman@sbcglobal.net

Barnes Change Gear DP 

 Nr 4-½ 16 DP 14.5º PA. 375 width 19/32” bore (.594”) 16, Two – 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 88 And the spindle tread should be 7/8"-10 also it uses a Nr 1 Morse taper. [inline:feed-chart-41_2.jpg]
 Nr5 Flat Belt 14 DP 14.5º PA and has an .688" bore. 820 Logan Lathe gears will fit the #5 Not original but you don't have to bore and grind.

This is a set of gears for the Nr 5 lathe. Nr5-½ & Nr 13 10 DP 14.5º PA 

Nr5-1/2 Has an .484" bore. 

The head/tail stock risers for the 4 1/2 and 5 are not interchangeable, because the beds are of different width. Most of this information is from Ray.

Here you can see the risers on a # 5;  

On the floor RH bottom, and behind the tail stock end of lathe bed and on top of the tool slide. 

Here are the published shipping specifications for #4-1/2 & #5 Barnes Lathes. Barnes #4-1/2 was shipped in two boxes 37-1/2 x 25-1/2 x 11 inches gross weight 200 lbs. 45-1/2 x 10-1/2 x 13 inches 150 lbs. Barnes #5 Regular Length bed was shipped in two boxes 37-1/2 x 25 x 13 inches gross weight 205 lbs. 58-1/2 x 13 x 15 inches gross weight 280 lbs. Barnes #5 Extra Length bed was shipped in two boxes 37-1/2 x 25 x 13 inches gross weight 230 lbs. 67 x 15 x 15 inches gross weight 315 lbs. There is no tensioning adjustment for the leather belt. You can adjust the chain by removing links or lowering the pedal brackets.

Dimensions for the barnes machines as produced in 1880.

Source; 1880 catalogue.

 Belt puncher 

Just out of interest, this type of machine is used for making all those little holes in the leather drive belts.

Source: internet.